Buckeye Blogger NetworkWe have been getting a lot of traffic today from our soon to be neighbors addictedtoquack.com, the Oregon blog over at SB Nation.
I went over to check out our fellow blog, and took the constructive criticism I recieved in this post to heart, so I decided to take a look at their analysis so that I could learn from the best.
I went and looked at the charts that they used so that perhaps I could use them in the future, since they are apparently better than what I threw together.
Buckeye Nation take notice, The Buckeye Battle Cry speaks for you.
You can observe the charts here for defense, and here for offense.
I called this update quick, so I don’t want to go in depth talking about those charts, perhaps some other time. But basically the guys over at quack are using the charts to say that Oregon’s defense is better than they are given credit for (specifically by me in this instance, and apparently I speak for all of Buckeye Nation… sweet).
But anyways, those charts rank Oregon 15th overall defensively and 14th overall offensively, which is fine and good.
What I noticed is that Penn State is ranked 9th defensively and 13th offensively in those same charts, both of which, you will note, are better than Oregon.
So if we are operating under the assumption that these charts are truly an accurate assessment of a team’s offensive and defensive capabilities, first rate even, as our soon to be colleagues over at quack seem to think, Penn State is better than Oregon on offense and on defense.
Ohio State beat the shit out of Penn State 24-7 in Happy Valley, an environment that was certainly more hostile to the Buckeyes than the Rose Bowl will be.
So, where does that leave us? and whose analysis is second rate?
That is all, enjoy your weekend everyone!
December 18th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
The counterpoint to your argument of comparisons between Penn State and Oregon showing Penn State being a better team than Oregon, would be schedule.
Oregon played one of the hardest OOC schedules in the country (@ Boise State, Purdue, Utah) to go along with a stacked Pac-10 schedule this year…while Penn State played scrubs OOC, and a very top-heavy Big-10.
Stats get skewed somewhat based on level of competition, and I doubt anybody could effectively argue that Penn State played a tougher schedule than Oregon.
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December 18th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
You seem to be operating on the theory that the transitive property works in football. Penn State had easy out of conference wins against Akron, Syracuse Eastern Illinois and Temple out of conference. Oregon played Boise State, Utah and Purdue out of conference, in addition to all 9 other Pac-10 schools.
You’re making your case purely based on defensive rankings without analyzing other factors, like strength of schedule, time of possession, the fact that the offense scores quickly which gives the other team more possessions.
That’s the very definition of second-rate analysis. I really hope this blog isn’t your primary source of income, because you suck at it.
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December 18th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
You can’t compare a team in your same conference to Oregon. You just can’t. You could argue that their offense is better than ours, and their defense is better than ours all you want… the fact is, you havn’t faced an offensive scheme like this EVER, let alone this year. Plus, Penn St faced a lot of the same defenses that you did in the Big 11. And as you know, the Big 11 was a pretty down conference this year. So to say you beat the shit out of Penn St doesnt really mean much to us Duck fans. All that said, we will meet in Pasedena for the 96th Rose Bowl to decide who’s opinion is actually correct. Good luck, Buckeyes… (whatever the HELL that is) I hope you don’t think you’re gonna run all over us, ’cause this team can go toe to toe with ANYONE.
GO DUCKS!!!
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December 18th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
No one I’ve asked seems to know what a Buckeye is…could you enlighten those of us on the West Coast?
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December 18th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
I actually have an excel file that breaks down each and every team on both teams schedule, stay tuned for that Oregon fans, right now I am going to go drink some beer, so it will have to wait
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December 18th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Jim Brown- Loved your work in Cleveland…
From our friends at Wikipedia:
The genus Aesculus (pronounced /ˈɛskjuləs/[1] or /ˈaɪskjuləs/) comprises 13-19 species of woody trees and shrubs native to the temperate northern hemisphere, with 6 species native to North America and 7-13 species native to Eurasia; there are also several hybrids. Species are deciduous or evergreen. This genus has traditionally been treated in the ditypic family Hippocastanaceae along with Billia,[2] but recent phylogenetic analysis of morphological[3] and molecular data[4] has led to this family, along with the Aceraceae (Maples and Dipteronia), being included in the soapberry family (Sapindaceae).
Linnaeus named the genus Aesculus after the Roman name for an edible acorn. The Eurasian species are known as horse chestnuts while the North American species are called buckeyes. Some are also called white chestnut or red chestnut (as in some of the Bach flower remedies). In Britain, they are sometimes called conker trees because of their link with the game of conkers, played with the seeds, also called conkers.
My relatives in Salem and Roseburg knew what they were (I asked), and said that they called them “horse chestnuts”.
Your turn- could you please enlighten us as to what this might be?
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December 18th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
We’ll wait with bated breath for your Excel spreadsheet which will certainly put an end to the debate. No doubt it prove once and for all that Penn State’s defeats of Akron, Syracuse, Temple and Eastern Illinois offer conclusive proof that Ohio State will beat Oregon.
Oregon should just save themselves the embarrassment and forfeit, huh? We don’t stand a chance.
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December 18th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Another reason to not compare Oregon’s defense by its stats…Oregon is among the top two or three teams in the ‘quick to score’ category. Meaning, the offense scores so quickly, Oregon’s defense spends most of the game on the field. If you were to look at Oregon’s defense on a a per-play basis, they would look at lot better than their overall stat ranking might indicate.
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December 18th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Michael H.
thank you for your input, it actually just shows that Oregon has a great offense and Ohio State has a great defense
it is funny that you mock me for an attitude that many of your fans have brought to this very thread, for instance, we have never faced an offense like Oregon’s… EVER
so please, spare me the sarcasm
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December 18th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
“Oregon should just save themselves the embarrassment and forfeit, huh? We don’t stand a chance.”
“I hope you don’t think you’re gonna run all over us, ’cause this team can go toe to toe with ANYONE.”
Man, you Ducks fans are an insecure group. Keep repeating this crap in your head so you can go about your day. Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to go think up some insults I think an Oregon fan would make and post angry messages on their forums.
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December 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
I will say this….despite the insecurities from some of the Oregon fans (not ALL, guys, some of you have been very nice and good debaters), at least they’re not the bed-wetters that Fresno State fans have been this week!
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December 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Jim,
Its funny that you attribute an attitude to me that I have never once displayed on your blog or anywhere else.
Keep digging, buddy, you aren’t doing your credibility any favors.
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December 18th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Michael,
I would like you to point out to me where I said that Oregon has no chance in this game.
You are either extremely insecure and paranoid, or I am making good points that convince you that Oregon isn’t going to win. Either way, it doesn’t matter, but no where have I said that Oregon doesn’t have a chance in this game, you kinda made that one up on your own.
Also, I fail to see how the phrase “it is funny that you mock me for an attitude that many of your fans have brought to this very thread” makes you think that I was attributing an attitude to you specifically, other than that whole paranoid thing again.
I appreciate the lessons on credibility though.
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December 19th, 2009 at 12:45 am
You’re like the Sarah Palin of football analysts. Second-rate analysis would actually be an improvement for you. Good luck.
ed. Brought to you by today’s term- Ad hominem.
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December 19th, 2009 at 12:55 am
The real question: is Oregon better on defense than Ohio State is on offense. I think that no matter how you analyze the tOSU offense, it is lackluster. The Oregon defense was the #1 defense in the Pac-10 in yards given up per play.
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December 19th, 2009 at 7:02 am
point taken Michael, for my next post I will compare Oregon fans to political figures to really kick the football debate into high gear, the point of this post was to learn from the best, when people call my analysis second rate it really, really hurts my feelings, and I believe you have truly taught me how to argue football at the highest level possible, so thank you for that
bisonducks, I agree, that is the real question here, and I am pretty sure that Ohio State fans and Oregon fans aren’t going to agree on the answer, funny how that works, huh
I actually took that exact point up in my last post, and I think that you will find that Ohio State’s rushing offense has improved drastically over the course of the year thanks to finding some sort of identity along the offensive line and an emphasis on not turning the ball over
Ohio State rushed for well over 200 yards against defenses that were far better than Oregon’s (Iowa and Penn State) in the last three weeks of the season, this is supported by both my second rate analysis and the magical first rate analysis charts that quack used, I don’t see how that can be disputed
For that reason, I am feeling fairly confident about this game, so confident, in fact, that I am going to go over to Oregon blogs and start posting about how great Ohio State’s team is and insulting their fan base… oh wait, no, that isn’t really what a confident fan base does, is it?
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December 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Jim, this is pretty good stuff. The insecurities and arrogance of the Oregon fans reminds me of the pregame puffing of the Notre Dame fans prior to the Fiesta Bowl. Their comments are pretty entertaining; thanks for rattling their cage.
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December 20th, 2009 at 6:06 am
bisonducks, the answer to your question as to whether Oregon’s defense is better than Ohio State’s offense is, based on what I saw in the Civil War, the Arizona game, and others, that if you slip tackles like that against Ohio State’s backfield, they will put up 300+ yards rushing. Having Saine, Herron and Pryor all at 100% by kickoff is going to be terrifying. The O-line is eventually going to blow Oregon’s defense off the line.
Will that happen quickly enough? Oregon’s defense was good when it has needed to be, but overall, they gave up about as many yards as their opposition would average and had to outscore almost everyone. Ohio State’s defense literally crushed their opponents’ averages.
It’s going to be a close game, but don’t expect your Ducks to break 30 points. As fast as Oregon is, Ohio State’s defense is faster than any they saw all year…especially since USC was missing 4 defensive starters.
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December 20th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Bucksfan,
We held Oregon State well under their rushing average. Canfield was dropping dimes. Pryor does not concern me in the least. Mobile quarterbacks are our specialty.
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December 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Jim,
as an Oregon fan, I have appreciated your insight and point of view. I’m not sure why fans on either side think that they will change the viewpoint of opposing fans. We over here think Oregon is an impressive offensive team and plays with a bend but don’t break defense, with critical moments of shutting down offenses. Obviously OSU d is serious. Stats are notorious for proving the provider correct, but regardless we’ll all find out on new years day.
Keep on bringing the posts, you’re getting a lot of Duck fans because us Oregonians are notorious in the sports blog field.
Good luck to both teams
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