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For The Sake Of Argument: BCS vs. Playoffs

Fire_medium


The debate rages on every college football season, like a wild fire in a wind storm. 

To playoff or not to playoff?  That is the question.

I happen to be a huge fan of what the BCS strives to create:  the greatest regular season in any sport. 

Yes, changes are needed but a complete overhaul would be a disaster (shameless website plug, see my BCS changes here).

I'm not here to talk about changing the BCS though, but rather to paint a picture of what college football would look like with a national playoff. 

Star-divide

I think Jim Mora said it best, "playoffs! you wanna talk about playoffs?"  I couldn't agree with your disgust more Jimmy, playoffs are like sports' versionAeaf2405afd8e621de0239b8684388b3-getty-fbn-super_bowl-giants-patriots_medium of a make-up exam.

Only in a playoff could the sub-par 10-6 New York Giants even think about winning a title.  What a joke!  Imagine #16 West Virginia swooping in late to secure a national championship last season with three losses. 

What does that tell us about who's the best in the country?

A playoff system is great for teams that half-assed their regular season, here's your free pass to mediocrity. 

What's the reward for teams that handle their business and dominate all season long? Grab a knee guys we've got four more games and home field advantage, you haven't proved enough already...sorry!

As it stands right now the BCS creates a thirteen week playoff in the regular season.  Every game matters, slip up once and you're most likely out of the hunt.  

What if Ohio State lost to Navy on opening weekend last year?

In a playoff system as long as they keep winning they'll still have a shot at the title in the tournament.  In the BCS they still might make a BCS game, but it would be hard for the human voters to excuse that loss and put them in the national championship game.

Most glaring to me is that playoffs don't fix the "what if" game.

Even in a playoff system teams can't play EVERY other team, so there's still plenty of questions.  Depending on seeding people will always wonder how certain games might have gone if the match-ups were differenBoise-state-broncos-091809l_mediumt.

Plus one game doesn't necessarily prove who's the best in the country, it just says that a team drew a good match-up in that round.  That only tells me who can get hot at the right time and play "up" when needed (what's up Boise State). 

What's more impressive is when a team can perform week in and week out when they're not playing the best of the best.  I want to see teams handle their business when it's hard to get jacked up.

Last but not least let's take it to a fan's perspective. 

It's a proven fact that college basketball has taken a huge hit in ratings during the regular season.  It's due to a lot of factors, but a huge issue is that fans just don't care until March.

I want you to think long and hard about losing some of the relevance, pageantry, and spirit of a college football season.

What a catastrophe!

I can't live without fans hanging on EVERY game that  their precious teams play.  Tailgating junkies sheepishly clinging to hopes of playing for the title like children waiting for Santa to bring them that coveted Red Ryder

Grove_medium

For God's sake don't take that away from me, don't take that away from yourselves!  Don't trade thirteen weeks of college football bliss for a month of  "January Madness." 

I'm on my knees college football, beggin' you please! 

Don't throw away a perfectly good system, there are starving kids in China who have no college football!        (thought I'd appeal to your conscience, it worked when my mom did it)

 

*Pictures obtained via www.islandnet.com, d.yimg.com, www.gambling911.com, shawn.ocia.net

Poll
Which side are you on?
BCS
66 votes
Playoffs
101 votes

167 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 68 comments |

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i like it

Good start Rob. I couldn’t agree more and the tidbit about the Giants and referencing #16 WVU was solid.

Like Feldman said on the podcast last night, no system is going to quiet the “what if” game completely.

For my money I want to see the most battle tested teams with the best proven record play one another. To go to basketball; last season I would have preferred UNC-UConn to the UNC-MSU we got when Michigan State got hot playing, essentially a home final 4 game.

ItsFELDER

by MichaelFelder on Jan 20, 2010 10:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

I dont believe the Giants arguement

Holds ANY water, as they beat teams that were ‘supposedly better’ than them. And to boot, they beat a Patriots team that was on the edge of NFL history, and it wasn’t a fluke.

Admitted Giants fan tho…..

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 20, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the Giants lost to the Patriots in the last game of the regular season that year, they also lost to the Dallas Cowboys twice… so doesn’t that make the Cowboys the better team? I think the Giants in 2007 are a pretty perfect example of why a playoff doesn’t solve the question of who is the best team

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really man

Getting to the playoffs is only one half of the equation

I believe that once the playoffs start, beginning with the wildcard round, that its a whole new season. The win or go home mentality is what makes it so great and exciting. The Cowboys and Patriots won in the regular season, but if you can’t get it done in the playoffs, that doesnt mean anything…….

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 20, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so you are okay with a meaningless regular season in college football? a regular season filled with mid majors putting up 10 wins every single season because there is no incentive for them to schedule competitive out of conference schedules?

the larger the playoff field is made the worse this problem gets

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the your last statement entirely

It should not be a large playoff field at all
8 teams max
4 teams preferably

Hell, I dont claim to have the answer, but even a +1 format would be better than what we have now
Let the winner’s of the BCS bowls play one another in a 4 team playoff to determine a true champ

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 20, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not as opposed to an +1 system

but to be a complete homer about it, I would much rather see Ohio State or even Florida as the plus one team instead of Boise State

seriously, did you see Boise State’s schedule? they don’t deserve shit until they either upgrade their conference or play every single out of conference game against a legit contender

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

unfortunately that doesn’t satisfy me, what happens this year if the top 4 played in a tournament? #1 Alabama vs #4 TCU and #2 Texas vs #3 Cincy

what would happen if Bama faced Cincy in the first round if seedings were different?

there’s still too many what ifs, every team can’t play everyone. football is all about match ups, maybe TCU matches up better against Texas??

We’d never know since TCU drew Bama in the first round

by robharley on Jan 20, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats fair enough

I think they would have to somehow incorporate a S.O.S. clause into the equation, forcing teams to schedule quality opposition. That way, the regular season would do a better job of weeding out the pretenders, and schools wouldn’t play FCS teams OOC coughSECcough

There are admittedly alot of factors that play into it, but the BCS is garbage right now…..

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 20, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

any thoughts on my BCS changes?

would you be down for a system like that?

by robharley on Jan 20, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

uck

That one would look disgusting almost entirely because cincy was a pretender and shouldn’t have been in it at all. They were a garbage team.

TEXAS FIGHT

by Darklust on Jan 21, 2010 2:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait till Friday

If you’re concerned about the regular season becoming meaningless, have I got a solution for you.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t agree with your “meaningless” regular season statement. A team still has to perform well to get ranked to get into seeding positions, so the regular season is still meaningful.

I do agree with your last statement; if the field gets too big, it resembles the NHL too much.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

The whole “What does a champion mean” discussion is an important one.

That’s why tBBC covered it back in the old days.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

MEH

While I mostly agree with what you are saying, and think that the regular season is pretty awesome, the BCS really is a terrible system. I am in favor of a playoff, but I think it can be restricted to 8 or even the top 10 teams and have byes for the first 2. Use the BCS to come up with the rankings. There will still be people that say we were screwed, but in college basketball where the field is 65 teams they’re are still complaints.

This would give TCU, Boise State, UC, Florida and everyone else another crack at the championship. There is no consistency accross college football in terms of S.O.S and do you have a championship game for the conference or not. So some schools benefit and some don’t.

If you take the top 10 or 8, this year there would have been 4 undfeateds, and 2 with 1 loss that would have a crack at it. Throw in Ohio State, Oregon, Iowa and Ga Tech and it’s a pretty good field. Really outside of the top 8 maybe 10, was there anyone else who would have a realistic chance of stringing 3 wins together against the others? Not really. This also preserves the bowls, so 40 other teams can go to a post season game and everyone can be happy.

by Btalbert21 on Jan 20, 2010 1:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I want to see someone come here and defend why a playoff system would be better

the grass is always greener as they say, and I think for every benefit that a playoff system may have there would be as many if not more negatives to go along with it

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 1:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I want to see someone come here and defend why a playoff system would be better

I’m working on it. I’m currently in between classes at the moment, so I don’t have time right this second. I pretty much disagree with most of this, and will respond point for point when I have more time later today.

by Simmsinns on Jan 20, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well one reason I would defend a playoff is that it would give Boise State a chance to play Alabama. It wouldn’t be a forgone conclusion that the winner of the SEC and Big 12 go to the BCS title game. That’s the direction this thing is heading. If a school from either of those conferences go undefeated they are automatically in.

That, and if you let a few teams play it out on the field against eachother you get an ACTUAL champ. Florida never plays a non conference opponent with a pulse, on the road. FSU hasn’t been elite for a long time. Let’s see if they are infact good enough to string together 3 victories in a row against top 10 teams. Anyone can game plan to win 1 game. That’s why Boise State has pulled off upsets. They can trick, and gimmick it up enough to make it past 1 team, but would they ever be able to do that against OSU, Bama, and Florida in 3 strait games?

by Btalbert21 on Jan 20, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My only response would be if teams like Boise State would only be able to compete in one or two games, why even go through the charade of playoffs? In my opinion it would be a waste of time to give them a chance hoping that “lightning strikes.”

by robharley on Jan 20, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m having trouble digesting that line. By definition, in a playoff structure, one-half of the teams are “one and done”, so which half do you exclude for wasting our time?

With ‘Lightning Strikes’, sometimes it happens, and we have look no further than the OSU-Wisconsin game this past year. There was a dearth of “conventional” scoring (offensive plays from scrimmage), but there sure was a lot of lightning with Interceptions, kickoff and fake punt for TD’s.

by KenK on Jan 21, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so...

Boise State played a total of six teams (not counting the 6-5 I-AA team they played ) with a winning record this year

those being 10-3 Oregon, 8-5 Fresno St, 7-6 Bowling Green, 8-5 Idaho, 8-5 Nevada, and 12-1 TCU

fuck them and their pathetic schedule, that’s my opinion

what happens when a playoff comes about and all of the mid majors rush to the bottom, schedule the most pathetic schedule possible every year, and get ten plus wins every season

how do you determine which of the 10+ win mid major teams deserve to be in the playoff over a 3 loss SEC school

its a can of worms that is at least as bad, and probably a whole lot worse, than the current system in my opinion

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good stuff.

it’s easy to see both sides which is why i think there should be a happy medium.

throughout the history of the BCS has anyone ever thought that the #16 team, hell the #8 team, deserves to play for a NC? i haven’t met anyone who truly believes that…

for starters, i think a 4-team playoff would work great.

to answer why i think it would be better than the current system i have always asked myself why college football even exist.

in this order –
1. money
2. fan and player entertainment (not related to money)
3. the glory of “winning it all” and the pride that ensues

having a playoff system increases all three

1. more TV and sponsorship money to the teams involved in the semi-final and final game, plus more money from boosters because you’re really good
2. more college football being played in the month of december is entertaining for fans, not to mention those non-fans who will watch because it’s good football and the games have meaningful implications
3. more pride to the team who wins because it had to work that much harder toward their goal, more meaningful to the fans because they don’t have to hear from the media that they aren’t the only undefeated team

in pro football, there’s never a dispute over who the best team is and how meaningless the regular season is. i think the same will go for college football if a 4-team playoff is implemented.

by GrooveLeg on Jan 20, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

4-team playoff

Phil Steele and Bruce Feldman both like the 4-team playoff ideal. I’m skeptical but more open to that idea because while there might be 4 teams that are hovering in that “best in the nation” arena I doubt that there will ever legitimately be more than 4 teams that I think are possibly the best in the nation.

I think proving it during the season is important and unlike most people who believe in “giving everyone a chance” I subscribe to the “i want to see the best teams play” model. Although, this year a 4-team playoff would have screwed us by having to watch Bama pound on TCU, Texas abuse Cincinnati and just to get to the result we already got.

ItsFELDER

by MichaelFelder on Jan 20, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this

4 team playoff MAXIMUM. This would keep the REG season important, as one loss could cost you a top 4 spot, especially if to a bad team. Also, I can’t remember one year where #5 in the final polls had a legit complaint for a shot at the National Championship. But I can remember several years where a #3 team and even a #4 had a legit complaint for a shot at the National Championship.

by T--Rac's Posse on Jan 20, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree...

an you’ll see why on Friday.

The problem also includes the ranking systems. If a team can no win their conference and still end up in the top four, we also minimize the regular season.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Crap

“not”

if a team can “not” win their conference…

Stupid fat fingers.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Suggestion on that

Less Sodium bro-nameth

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 20, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Mali, the scary thing is that we

all probably knew what your intent was. Yikes.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with this argument about not winning conference but in the top 4 is

what if there is a year where 2 teams from the same conference are better than anybody else? How is it not fair then? Why does conference matter in determining the absolute best teams?

I know the NCAA Basketball tourney is a totally different animal, but is it wrong or flawed if two teams from the same conference end up in the FInal Four? Happens all the time. I don’t see the issue with that.

by T--Rac's Posse on Jan 20, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

SEC! SEC!

Or, in the case of basketball: ACC! ACC!

The problem is that it’s hard to know who’s “Best” outside of the hype that surrounds conferences/teams/etc. You’d have to play head to head- and even then, the only fair way is a multi-game series (like the NBA/MLB) on a neutral field.

But, if you take a conference champion, it’s safe to assume they’re the best from their conference. If conferences are imbalanced, universities are free to change- no federal mandate for Pittsburgh to be in the Big East.

Play the best of the best, and go from there…

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ok so maybe it wouldn't have been that crucial this year,

but there have been plenty of years in the past where it would have mattered. regardless of who’s playing, would you watch the games? i think you would…

by GrooveLeg on Jan 20, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike that's a good point, but if you were..

. to substitute Ohio State/Florida for TCU/Cincy, you’d get better matchups. I wouldn’t get too hung up on the specific teams, that will ebb and flow throughout time. I think we are all driving to a process to set up a structure that enables a much better probability of identifying top teams to participate in NC game.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rob, I did fall for your shameless website plug and..

.. got up to speed on your Five Changes. I thought they were entertaining and educational. Much better than a shameless hair plug. Full disclosure, I support a playoff.

I think the two best recommendations were #4-play every team in your conference and #3 no more coaches poll. The other reasons, I’m sort of ‘meh’ on; required but not likely to happen.

I do disagree with your sequential bowl matchups, since in effect you’re letting rankings determine placement into Championship determining games.

Good conversation fodder, though, well thought out.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 1:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ken, good stuff my man. I appreciate the feedback! keep in mind my changes to the BCS are wishful thinking considering it’s all about money anyway.

as far as sequential bowl match-ups, those rankings will be legit considering they’ve taken a whole body of work into consideration and has multiple factors taken into account (strength of schedule, human voters, etc.)

by robharley on Jan 20, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a good point, Rob, particularly about factoring in the “little details” such as SoS to try to normalize a team’s ranking vis a vis other teams.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jim (at BBC) I want to address your post at 10:01

with your “defend a playoff” challenge. All I can say to that is: FCS, D-II and D-III.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

in response to that

I would just point to the number of fans that travel to each of the playoff games in those divisions, the amount of revenue made off of the games being televised, and the amount of money brought into the areas that host those playoff games

it is ridiculous to pretend like those divisions and their playoff systems are even remotely relevant to what it would take to have a successful playoff system at the D-I level

also, there is no controversy surrounding the selection of the playoff field because the fan bases involved aren’t large enough for anyone to care

when a 10-3 BCS division team gets left out of a playoff for a 11-1 or 12-0 mid major school like Boise State, people are going to be pissed, and the bitching will be at least as bad as it is now over choosing who is #1 and #2

also, regarding a four team playoff this year, which I am much more receptive to, do you really want Boise State and TCU in that four team playoff over Ohio State, Oregon, Florida, or even Cincinnati?

like I said, the can of worms that I playoff would open in major college football would be at least as bad, and probably a whole lot worse, than the bitching that goes on now over the BCS system

show me a system that doesn’t make the problem worse and I will support it… it is my opinion that you can’t, unless you completely eliminate mid major programs from the equation

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A question...

How do you define Mid Major? Is TCU a mid-major? What about Duke? Cincinnati?

I agree in premise with what you’re saying, but would like to see us draw some clearer lines- perhaps a conference re-org? Get rid of the “weak sisters”, and make power conferences…

More later.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you set up your future posts so well haha

the power conference realignment is a very interesting concept, particularly if Ohio State plucks Texas from the Big 12 and the current conference landscape is obliterated

stay tuned! (even though I personally have no idea what Mali has in store for everyone)

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

edit

and by Ohio State I mean the Big Ten of course

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mali, Jim is right. This shameless plugging for your Friday post goes

way beyond what Rob was doing! At least he was a bit more subtle about it. Sorta.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But wait...

I have to go on Friday, when everyone blows off work and therefore isn’t on tBBC.

Gotta do something- I don’t have a BCS ring. :)

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too funny.

I’ll make it a point to be here. I don’t have a BCS ring either, so if nothing else, we can commiserate together. Maybe Rob can stop by and post a photo of his ring for us..

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don’t you worry my brothers, I’ll be checking in often to make a couple of quick points!!

you might just have to bring the heat stronger then ever on Friday

by robharley on Jan 20, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mali already knows this, but I also do have a “reorg” post all prepped and ready.

by talonk on Jan 21, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jim, I think you did a good job in your

first three paragraphs to highlight that the emphasis is on revenue generation, and less so to determine a NC. Plus, it generates a lot of discussion.

As I mentioned in a response to Michael, don’t get hung up on which four teams make are the top four. I believe the intent is to construct a process that identifies the four best teams. I think that one of Rob’s recommendations to dump the coach’s poll is a step in the right direction. Another step, as you suggest, is to strip out the midmajors; perhaps setting up their own MNC system. I agree with Mali (below, I think) is what defines a midmajor program?

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think creating “super” conferences is one of the most intriguing ways to eliminate mid majors from the discussion, throw every school into a 16 team league and say sink or swim

It seems like Mali is going to get into a lot of that stuff later, so I will wait and see what he has to say about it

Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship...O-H-I-O

by Jim at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think now we are getting somewhere, although

that is putting a lot of pressure on Mali for his Friday opus.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh crap i forgot to include that in my post.

i agree, the coaches poll is useless.

the super conference idea might steer this conversation in the wrong direction.

by GrooveLeg on Jan 20, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Article Rob

Hey Rob,

Great article. Your writing on the subject definitely has me thinking a little bit. Here’s one thing to consider, you reference those 2007 Giants of which I actually watched a lot of. A point that should be highlighted is that isn’t that the beauty of the playoffs? Everyone has a little glimmer of hope, and you just have to hope if you sit on your side of the fence that the best team goes through the gauntlet of the finest teams in the field with it all on the line. The finality of a playoff system is what I love, also while Cinderella has one last chance to dance if she earns it.

Keep up the great work! I’m loving your addition to the blog!

by TheNaturalMevs on Jan 20, 2010 2:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Playoffs are bad for a couple other reasons

College football is about more than National Championships. Having a playoff system would likely put (assuming a 4 team format) the same 6-8 teams in year in and year out. The money paid out in these games would certainly help those schools continue to separate themselves from everyone else, but without SOME parity in those resources, the regular season would eventually become BOOOOOOORIIIIIIIIING. Also, just like the BCS today, the Boise States and TCUs of the world would stand almost no shot at getting in, so it wouldn’t solve the argument.

Second, these are student-athletes. How long do we intend to make the season? Alabama played 14 games this season because of the SEC championship. With a plus-1 that goes to 15. With a plus-2 (which is the only way a BSU or TCU or BYU or Utah have a chance at a NC), they’re playing 16 games and most likely going into two quarters or semesters.

by TiltingRight on Jan 20, 2010 4:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

RE: Student Athletes

But, for a lot of situations, the “student” aspect is forgotten. In basketball the “one and done” phenomenon means that Greg Oden or John Wall go to class for one semester and then are out…

Even those student/athletes who are serious about their academics see any sports impacting their educational opportunities- that’s why a good number of them are in summer classes…

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trim down the regular season a couple games

. does OSU really need to play New Mexico State and Akron?

The Purple Raiders at Mt. Union (in a typicaly good year) play 10 regular season games plus the four playoff’s for their fourteen games. I’m sure the athletes of Big 10, etc can pull this off if the OAC student-athletes can.

by KenK on Jan 20, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This may frighten you

but we’re thinking along the same line…

Of course, losing a game or two against cupcakes is a lot of lost tickets in the Horseshoe…

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 20, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is 10 games enough to pick 8 or 16 teams to play for the title?

Especially if they’re only playing other conference opponents?

Also, what happens to the athletic budgets of the 103 D1 football programs that don’t get to the playoffs (assuming a 16 team format)? Football is the biggest money maker for almost every athletic department in the country.

by TiltingRight on Jan 21, 2010 4:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It is

if you’re only selecting Conference Champions like someone else suggested.

I don’t see why the inclusion of a 4 or 8 team playoff would necessitate that all of the other bowl games have to vanish. I imagine the current non-BCS bowls would exist for the non-playoff teams to enjoy….even if the smaller ones are monetarily detrimental for the most part.

Why would you ever want to run the prevent defense? It's a defense specifically designed to prevent the field goal by giving them a touchdown!

by Eric at the BBC on Jan 21, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is 10 games enough

To finance every women’s and men’s sport you have, pay Tressell and his staff, continuously upgrade facilities, pay for recruiting planes, pay for new field turf etc?

Losing two home games with 100,000+ people in the stadium, not to mention the extra 40-80k in Columbus, at the student store, at restaurants etc is a big dent

ItsFELDER

by MichaelFelder on Jan 21, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.

So why would a playoff game in Columbus be a bad thing again? Exta dollars for the department and the city. That would be sooo terrible!!

by talonk on Jan 21, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tressel has been so horrifically bad keeping momentum going after a bye week. So, yes, I in order to keep from getting an unnecessary loss because of lack of focus, poor coaching (whatever the reasons are), they schedule the additional New Mexico State game.

To resolve this issue, you would basically have to take all non-conference games away. Save perhaps one at the beginning of the season.

by Chief WaDrew on Jan 21, 2010 7:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they're both terrible

the BCS ruins the rest of the marquee bowls. Playoffs render every bowl moot. But I don’t think you talked about the most important factor in all of this: money and the payouts to schools. The BCS and the bowl system is not meant to pit the two best teams together; it is to put the two biggest marquee teams together to generate the biggest profit.

The BCS conferences make a huge amount of cash with the current set up, and I don’t care what anyone says, a playoff, although a boon for a few teams, would hurt most of the schools financially. Hence, it ain’t happening. There would be too many schools that would have to drop non-revenue producing sports, because football, and the money brought in from football, prop up sports like fencing, lacrosse, swimming, etc.

I say go back to the old bowl system with conference affiliation. It’s better than either the BCS or a proposed playoff system.

"We're used to Favre-a-palooza now. We're engulfed in Favre-a-palooza. It's not even Favre-a-palooza anymore. He's family now."

--Vikings TE Visanthe Shiancoe, on Brett Favre

by MilCardFan on Jan 20, 2010 5:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This appears rather long, but it really isn’t bad. Please, continue…

I think Jim Mora said it best, “playoffs! you wanna talk about playoffs?” I couldn’t agree with your disgust more Jimmy, playoffs are like sports’ version of a make-up exam.

Wrong. Using your own analogy: The regular season is a semester of classes, the playoffs are the first and final exam.

Only in a playoff could the sub-par 10-6 New York Giants even think about winning a title. What a joke!

Are you kidding? Really, you cannot be serious. Wow. The 2007 Giants are EXACTLY why playoffs work! They were the best team, and they proved it. Leaving them out, when they’re clearly better than the (would-be BCS #1) Patriots would be the joke. I mean, seriously, this is just ridiculous.

Imagine #16 West Virginia swooping in late to secure a national championship last season with three losses.
What does that tell us about who’s the best in the country?

First of all, that probably wouldn’t have happened, or ever happen in a 16 team college football playoff. But, for the sake of argument, I’m willing to hear out your point. "What would that tell us?" That West Virginia would be the BEST team in the country. What’s making this so hard for you to understand? They’d beat the #1 seed, and other greats as well to do so. You clearly have the impression that playoff victories are a lot easier than they really are.

A playoff system is great for teams that half-assed their regular season, here’s your free pass to mediocrity.

This is total bullsh.. er crap. NO team that cares enough to try and make the playoffs, ever half-asses a regular season. There are a lot of teams in college football that would be eligible to make a 16 team playoff. You’d EARN that spot in the regular season. Half-ass, and you won’t make it.

What’s the reward for teams that handle their business and dominate all season long? Grab a knee guys we’ve got four more games and home field advantage, you haven’t proved enough already…sorry!

Simple, better seeding. Every seeded playoff system in history is proof of how much seeding can matter. Is it the security blanket that I assume someone like you would want it to be? Perhaps not, but championships shouldn’t be guaranteed to go to one of only two hand picked teams.

As it stands right now the BCS creates a thirteen week playoff in the regular season. Every game matters, slip up once and you’re most likely out of the hunt.

Completely false. Again. If the BCS has proved anything, it’s that you can lose and still end up in a title game. Did you just say, "thirteen week playoff?" Not even close. I’m not surprised to learn that you clearly have a very skewed view of what a playoff is to say something like that.

What if Ohio State lost to Navy on opening weekend last year?
In a playoff system as long as they keep winning they’ll still have a shot at the title in the tournament. In the BCS they still might make a BCS game, but it would be hard for the human voters to excuse that loss and put them in the national championship game.

This is true, and actually a reason why there should be playoff. You want a last second flukey pick-six by a linebacker to be the difference maker between title shot, or no title shot?

Most glaring to me is that playoffs don’t fix the “what if” game.
Even in a playoff system teams can’t play EVERY other team, so there’s still plenty of questions.

It does in fact fix any legitimate "what if" questions. If you earn a playoff spot, you then win or go home (4 times in a 16 team playoff). You’ll face a top 16 opponent a whopping FOUR times in a row. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to win those games and be crowned the National Champion? I don’t think you do. But EVERY year a team will be good enough to do so, and earn the unquestionable title of the best team in the country.

Depending on seeding people will always wonder how certain games might have gone if the match-ups were different.

That’s why earning seeds in the regular season is very important.

Plus one game doesn’t necessarily prove who’s the best in the country, it just says that a team drew a good match-up in that round. That only tells me who can get hot at the right time and play “up” when needed (what’s up Boise State).

This a complete conjecture. "Drew a good match-up" is possible, but hardly even concrete. Hell, Oregon was supposed to crush a good OSU team, do to "good match-ups." How’d that work out. A team cannot win a 60+ minute football game on match-ups alone. And Boise State went undefeated, what’s this "play up" you’re referring to? Lastly, NO team can have good match-ups or "play up" for four games in a row vs. the only the best teams in the country, in 16 team playoff (much better than the +1.)

What’s more impressive is when a team can perform week in and week out when they’re not playing the best of the best. I want to see teams handle their business when it’s hard to get jacked up.

Again, you cannot be serious. I honestly can’t believe other people agree with this statement, at all. Uhhh yeah sure, it’s harder to win when you’re NOT playing the best. Ha! And you base this purely off of the inability to get motivated for certain game? How are you going to try and claim that the BCS creates the best, most entertaining college football regular season then point out how teams do find it hard to get jacked up. Ever wonder why? There is a very clear and obvious contradiction that just so happens to answer that why.

Last but not least let’s take it to a fan’s perspective.

I’ve had a lot of fun so far. Why not…

It’s a proven fact that college basketball has taken a huge hit in ratings during the regular season. It’s due to a lot of factors, but a huge issue is that fans just don’t care until March.

Basketball is a entirely different sport, played an entirely different way. It’s hard to make that comparison mostly because of the number of games played. Anything other than a playoff system for college basketball would be totally unrealistic. Also, you’ll either find games entertaining or you won’t. How post-season works should have little to do with that. But of course it does because, well, lets be frank… a lot of fans are dumb.

I want you to think long and hard about losing some of the relevance, pageantry, and spirit of a college football season.
What a catastrophe!

Yeah, never going to happen, no matter what happens with the post-season.

I can’t live without fans hanging on EVERY game that their precious teams play. Tailgating junkies sheepishly clinging to hopes of playing for the title like children waiting for Santa to bring them that coveted Red Ryder.

1. This should happen in a playoff anyway. 2. In a sense it shouldn’t happen now. What happens when you do lose? You have a bad week, and it starts all over again next Saturday. What I’m trying to say is, in the current system you can lose and still have a shot at a lot, (good BCS bowl, even the title game.)

For God’s sake don’t take that away from me, don’t take that away from yourselves! Don’t trade thirteen weeks of college football bliss for a month of “January Madness.”
I’m on my knees college football, beggin’ you please!

This is completely and totally YOUR problem. If you don’t find football games entertaining just because a playoff follows the season, then you’ve got the issue. It is entirely possible to really enjoy regular season football games despite it ending in playoffs. Millions, including myself, do it every Sunday during the NFL season.

Don’t throw away a perfectly good system, there are starving kids in China who have no college football! (thought I’d appeal to your conscience, it worked when my mom did it)

A perfectly good system?!? C’mon, even you can admit the current system isn’t perfect. Barely even functional, in my honest opinion.

Finally, I’d like to by conclude saying, I do respect your opinion. You’ve clearly put a fair amount of thought into it, and I enjoyed reading through despite disagreeing. Also, please don’t take any of my response personally, sometimes I get a little carried away when responding to something I’m passionate about (I do strongly feel their should be a playoff, more than any other sports related issue). It is after all, only my opinion.

by Simmsinns on Jan 21, 2010 11:09 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for joining the conversation

that’s what we’re looking for at tBBC!

Talonk posted his thoughts about a playoff today, and I’ll do the same tomorrow. We’ll be interested in your reflections on our ideas.

Of course the conversation degenerated...
You were having it with a bunch of degenerates.

by MaliBuckeye at The BBC on Jan 21, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this was great.

solid points all around.

by GrooveLeg on Jan 21, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely

At first glance, it was super long and almost didnt read it, but great points and counterpoints.

THAT’S HOW YOU DO IT! THAT’S HOW YOU DEBATE!

Out of Hound since 2008

by BuckeyeSki on Jan 21, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great debate

I would never take offense dude, if that were the case I might as well get out of the broadcasting business!!

I enjoyed your counterpoints, unfortunately this is one of the issues that we might never see eye to eye on (agree to disagree).

The only point I would raise again is that when I said “perfectly good system,” I meant its intentions. I don’t think we should throw it away before trying to tweak it till it can’t be tweaked any more. I think it’s a little too soon to jump away from it completely.

Check out my BCS changes and let me know if you could live with the system in those terms…good talk, see you out there

by robharley on Jan 21, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

read you posts, and I like a lot about them. The one I have a problem with is playing every conference foe, at least under the current alignments. No way the 12 team conferences play 11 conference games and only 1 OOC game. Not gonna happen.

I’ll touch more on this when my upcoming thoughts are posted on realignment.

by talonk on Jan 21, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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