Michigan’s Big Weekend Sends Message

Written February 22nd, 2012 by Jim

Apparently kids want to play football for this guy. ( John T. Greilick/The Detroit News)

Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due- Brady Hoke and his Michigan program did very well on the recruiting trail this past weekend.

The weekend was so good, in fact, that the rest of the Big Ten- and especially those of us in Buckeye Nation, need to sit up and take notice.

Not only did Michigan land eight verbal commitments in a matter of 48 hours, some of those commitments came from players on Ohio State’s radar- and a few even had offers from the Buckeyes! *gasp*

On top of the numbers is the quality- every last one of the eight verbals was a four-star prospect according to Rivals.

This type of success, particularly head-to-head with the Buckeyes, is a far cry from what we had all come to expect and enjoy during the Rodriguez era.

Is it time for the Big Ten to panic?

With Meyer’s close to the 2012 class and this opening for Hoke’s 2013 class- probably.

Is it time for Buckeye Nation to panic?

The answer to that is a resounding no, but this weekend sent a clear message.

Hoke is doing something up north that works, as evidenced by the slew of early commitments. The competition is about to go up a few notches in Big Ten country.

It is a situation worth monitoring closely, particularly as it relates to the recruiting momentum that Urban Meyer has built in Columbus.

The Big Two in the Big Ten are back and slugging it out.

Let’s start with a recap of the weekend before getting into the implications it has for Ohio State.

Starting at the bottom of the list (in terms of interest), there is MI OL David Dawson and MI DB Jourdan Lewis-  teammates at Cass Tech in Detroit.

Ohio State wasn’t in the picture for either and therefore I know nothing about them.

Rivals ranks them both as four star prospects. They could turn into good college players- or not.

Either way, both are not that interesting from a Buckeye perspective, so let’s move on to the targets that Ohio State got beat head-to-head for.

MI DE/TE Wyatt Shallman, IL OL Logan Tuley-Tillman and CO OL Chris Fox all chose Michigan with an offer from Ohio State in hand.

I won’t spend time rationalizing their decisions from a Buckeye point of view (although you can if you would like-it’s pretty easy to do). The bottom line is that three very talented players Ohio State wanted chose the dark side.

When you throw in IL OL Kyle Bosch (who lacked an offer from the Buckeyes), you get a Wolverine offensive line class that has Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten playing catch-up.

The implication here is fairly obvious- Michigan is back and competing with Ohio State for top players on the national stage- something that they were clearly (and hilariously) not doing under Rodriguez.

This is all noteworthy, but the really interesting stuff stems from the final two weekend commitments.

Those would be the Ohio players- DE/TE Jake Butt from Pickerington North and DE/TE Taco Charlton from Pickerington Central.

As an Ohio State fan, you hate to see Ohio high school players head north regardless of the circumstances- in this case, neither player had an Ohio State offer and wasn’t likely to get one.

Taco Charlton wasn't getting an offer from Ohio State- will he be a star for the Wolverines? (11W)

Offered or not, the defectors could turn into very good players for the maize and blue and come back to haunt the Buckeyes on the field.

It has happened numerous times before and it will certainly happen again.

Will that be the case with these two players?

Who knows, but it opens up a can of worms that fuels the greatest rivalry in sports.

The can of worms is this: taking talent from Ohio is the foundation of success for Michigan’s football program.

From Bo Schembechler to Desmond Howard to Charles Woodson and hundreds more, the Wolverines would be nothing without constantly raiding the state of Ohio.

That is a fact.

Brady Hoke, who was born in Ohio, knows this fact all too well and is taking advantage accordingly.

Poaching Ohio talent is clearly one of the cornerstones of his recruiting strategy.

After a Rodriguez themed vacation, Michigan is back in Ohio forcing the Buckeye coaching staff to put a lot of thought into who they do- but more importantly who they don’t extend early in-state scholarships to.

If the staff delays offering to evaluate at camp or for other reasons, more often than not Hoke will be there in a second with an offer of his own.

That alone is not remarkable- Michigan stealing from Ohio has been and always will be a huge part of the rivalry.

What is noteworthy is the new level that Hoke has taken raiding Ohio to.

Part of his initial success was clearly due to the Tat-gate fiasco, but this weekend indicates that Hoke’s presence in Ohio is here to stay and is something Buckeye Nation will have to deal with.

In particular, Hoke has been extremely effective with his pitch that Ohio kids are being ‘disrespected’ if they lack an early offer from the Buckeyes.

What better place for ‘disrespected’ Ohio kids to go than Michigan, right? They can really stick it to those non-offering meanies in Columbus at Michigan!

All you have to do is read interviews with players like Kaleb Ringer or Joe Bolden to see the effects of this strategy shining through loud and clear.

Once again, there is nothing inherently wrong with Hoke using this strategy- other than it being slightly juvenile and obnoxious.

When Michigan offers rain down on Ohio kids that the Buckeyes haven’t offered (like they have been), you know exactly what the recruiting pitch is going to be.

Obnoxious or not, you can’t dispute the results- a juvenile recruiting tactic works on juveniles… who would have guessed?

He doesn't look worried. (Jamie Sabau/Getty Images)

While I readily admit that Hoke’s obvious and constant use of the ‘disrespect’ angle annoys me, it might ultimately be a good thing for the rivalry. After all, it adds to the motivation of players as well as providing plenty of bulletin board material in the locker room.

Good or not, it is the recruiting reality that Urban Meyer and his coaches are dealing with.

So, what are the Buckeyes to do in the face of such an onslaught on in-state talent?

The only way Ohio State can respond is to make sure that the kids they do target develop into  successful college players at a higher rate than the ones they pass on- particularly the in-state kids that Hoke is waiting to snatch up.

Buckeye fans have to trust Urban Meyer and his staff’s ability to evaluate and target players.

Based on his track record, I am perfectly fine doing just that.

As frustrating as it is to watch Ohio kids without offers defect north each year, there is a risk involved for the Wolverines.

After all, there is usually a reason the Ohio players Hoke targets lack an early offer from the Buckeyes.

To bring this discussion back to this weekend, Jake Butt and Taco Charlton certainly have plenty of potential, but Meyer clearly has higher priorities on his recruiting board.

Brady Hoke could turn each player into a success story, but raiding Ohio for players that the Buckeyes pass on will result in plenty of misses to go along with the ones that pan out.

Once again, as an Ohio State fan, you just hope that the Buckeye staff can bring in successful college players at a higher rate than Hoke and his minions can develop the talent that they poach from Ohio.

It is a back-and-forth dynamic that has always been present in the rivalry and makes following recruiting that much more interesting for both fan bases.

What does this all mean?

To summarize, this weekend made two things abundantly clear:

  • Michigan is back on the national stage competing for and landing top players.
  • Hoke will continue to target Ohio players with a focus on the ones without an early Ohio State offer.

The Buckeyes lost a few players head-to-head this weekend, they passed on some Ohio talent that Hoke snatched up, and Michigan clearly jumped out  to an early recruiting lead in the 2013 class.

Fortunately, recruiting is a marathon and not a sprint.

Urban Meyer will have plenty of time to respond and overcome Michigan’s hot start in the coming months.

The greatest rivalry in sports is back.

On the recruiting trail and on the field- It’s on!


  1. ZNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    So Hoke takes Ohio players OSU doesn’t want. Urban is getting who he needs and wants for his system. We’ll see on the field.


    Wolv.No Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    If OSU didn’t want those players, then why did they offer them?


    MaliBuckeyeNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    We wanted them to feel special?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    He was specifically referring to the Ohio kids who were both not offered by the Buckeyes.

    If Hoke ever starts pulling kids from Ohio with an Ohio State offer in any significant numbers, that would raise the alarm bells in Buckeye Nation significantly higher.

    A recruitment to follow in that regard is Dymonte Thomas. He committed to Michigan before Ohio State offered. Now Meyer is on the trail. That will be an interesting one to watch.


    KenNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I agree, Jim. If Hoke signs Ohio players that aren’t offered by OSU, I don’t have a problem. If a player is choosing UM when he has bother offers, then alarms go off.


    Wolv.No Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Thomas is a done deal. Meyer already tried. No kid would help recruit players to a school (UM) if they could possibly be playing for their enemy (OSU).

    It’s exciting that both schools should become powerhouses again. I’m pretty sick of listening to SEC fans.


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Let’s play a game-can you guess which 2012 recruit spoke the following words?

    I am a huge fan of Ohio State. Always was and always will be.

    And had the following written about them?

    By The Bank….Remains 100% committed to Ohio State, as long as Coach Fickell remains the coach, and is actively recruiting other players. Plans on getting all of the commits to attend camp on June 25th to show their support.

    If you couldn’t guess, the answer is Kyle Kalis- perhaps you’re familiar?

    There is a long time between now and when the signatures go on the dotted line.

    Keep telling yourself that Dymonte is a done deal.


    MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    I wonder if Kali’s still feels that way, given the threats.

    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    The point is, circumstances change and people change their mind.

    Dymonte Thomas is currently committed to Michigan and he has even recruited other players to Ann Arbor (the primary player that he was recruiting, by the way, was his cousin Brionte Dunn, who is currently in Columbus), but Kalis was the same way for the Buckeyes last year.

    Would you like to revisit the cheap shot about fans making “threats” if/when Dymonte flips? I’m sure there are plenty of morons in your fan base that will stoop to that level just like there are those in the Ohio State fan base that did.


    KenNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Yes and Yes, Wolv.


  2. Joe LaingNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    I think the biggest thing to note is that Hoke has taken the challenge head on. We have seen guys like Bucky the badger Beilima and Dantonio cry about Meyer and his recruiting. It looks like Hoke wants to try and compete and it will be interesting to see if the rest of the conference gets left behind.


  3. Ben HNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Oh well…let Michigan, FL, or AL (or whomever)load up early on recruits for 2013. Meyer is waiting for the kids to make their own decisions (not to mention…it makes sense to see how well these kids do in their SR HS season before hard court pressing them). You’ll see Meyer try hard for De’Veon Smith and Shelton Gibson and a couple QBs…the rest he will play the wait and see method(however he will still be in touch with every recruit that he “wants” till Feb 1st 2013). That’s why he was successful at Utah and FL…unrelentless and never stopping until they say “I’m a Buckeye!” Bold Buckeye prediction…OSU will be #1 or #2 for 2013 recruiting with only 18-20 recruits unless there’s more atrition.


  4. RyanNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Good for Hoke. Get recruits, build your team into the second best team in the country! I want to see UM as #1 every year until game 12 when we take it, and again in the B1G championship. We’ll go to the National Championship in 2013 and let you win the Rose Bowl! B1G back on top. I have a feeling though the future will be the Big Two that compete with the best and those that can’t keep pace will be the Big Ten. Sorry MSU and Wisky, you’re all done!


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Is the joke on Michigan State and Wisconsin? Or Penn State, who you didn’t even think to mention. :lol:


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    For the record, that odd twitching face is supposed to represent laughing out loud. Although I’m not sure how exactly it does that.


    MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    Ryan, you do realize that if, and may I add a big “IF”, Ohio State beats Michigan in the Big Ten Championship that Michigan would not go to the Rose Bowl. The winner of the big ten championship goes to the rose bowl. Get yours facts straight.


    RyanNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    I said Michigan to the Rose Bowl, Ohio State to the National Championship. tOSU can’t go to both the Rose Bowl and the National Championship, so the B1G would obviously select TSUN as the runner up. I’ve got nothing but respect for UM, but I do believe that after Hoke loses Denard and Meyer having a year to straighten out Braxton and the offense that tOSU has a good shot in 2013 to beat TSUN and make a championship run. 2012 on the other hand has the advantage towards the Wolverines.

    The joke is on MSU and Wisky. Penn State is already out for the count!


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 5:43 am

    “so the B1G would obviously select TSUN as the runner up”

    ok… assuming TSUN is an acronym for “the **** up north”, that is quite offensive and, dare I say it, disrespectful.

    meanwhile, literally the very next sentence…

    “I’ve got nothing but respect for UM”

    umm… you’re an idiot.


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:06 am

    TSUN is an acronym for “that school up north” which has been used by Ohio State fans since the days of Woody Hayes.

    So, who’s the idiot again?


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    well I guess that’s what happens when you make assumptions. I apologize. I did at least honor the fact that I was making an assumption. Perhaps you failed to read that part. Considering your article is filled with false assumptions, you probably should know all about that Jim. So, who’s the idiot again?

  5. MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    As a UM fan, I am ecstatic about this weekend. I do have one honest question for you and that is Where do you get your information that Coach Hoke uses the disrespected angle to lure recruits? I haven’t read that anywhere and I am curious about it. After the RichRod era, it is great to see UM going after the talent rich state of Ohio for players again. Look forward to the next era of the Greatest Rivalry in All of Sports!


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Follow the “Joe Bolden” and “Kaleb Ringer” links.


    MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    I don’t see where they quote Coach Hoke pitching disrespect. Seems more like the opinions of these recruits or the bloggers themselves.


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Believe what you will. Pretending like Hoke isn’t telling kids they should come to Michigan to stick it to Ohio State for not recruiting them is being naive, in my opinion.

    But you are correct, it is my opinion- supported by a remarkably similar attitude from many of the players in question who choose Michigan after not receiving a Buckeye offer.


    MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    I really don’t think they need to take that angle. The program, like Ohio State, sells itself. When all the tattgate stuff was going down, according to recruits, Coach Hoke took the high road and never said anything negative, and it worked quite well. Why would he need to take the disrespect angle now?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Why Hoke continues to target and land Ohio recruits that the Buckeyes pass on is a question that I don’t need to answer. That’s something you Michigan fans can debate amongst yourselves.

    Will the spurned Ohio players pan out for the Wolverines? Or will Ohio State bring in elite national talent that leaves the Ohio players they pass on in the dust?

    No one knows, but we will find out in the coming years if the current trends continue at both schools.

    Also, to make this perfectly clear: the Buckeyes aren’t abandoning Ohio, they are just being significantly more selective with their early offers than Michigan in the state.

    The Buckeyes will still get their top targets in Ohio, and as I said earlier, when Michigan beats the Buckeyes for an Ohio recruit that both are targeting, that would really be news.

    RyanNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Agreed. Michigan sells itself. It is the winningest program in history. It’s just had a decade of trouble. Though in that time they did do what we couldn’t… go 2-0 against Florida. I really want a rematch with those pesky gators…with a real coach.

    TracyNo Gravatar
    February 27th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    I disagree as I have had the chance to speak to two recruits that hoke tried to recruit and he(hoke) did mention the tat issues and how the buckeyes would get 2 or more years of sanctions so those young men would not be playing in any bowl games any time soon(this was before Meyers was named the head coach). I have met Hoke as he is from the Dayton area and he was a product of Fairmount HS kettering ohio. He always like michigan and hated OSU becasue of all his friends liked the Buckeyes

    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 5:48 am

    Jim, your comments are so utterly absurd. Hoke doesn’t just recruit kids who Ohio fails to offer. Hoke clearly recruits kids that Ohio has offered. The idea that Brady Hoke avoids Buckeye targets is completely false and lacks any evidence to support it. I could name several players that Brady Hoke has recruiting for 2012 and 2013 that had Ohio offers. I could spin this discussion the other way as well. Maybe Urban Meyer avoids offering players that Brady Hoke is after! Urban Meyer only goes after the recruits that Michigan doesn’t want! If that sounds absurd, it’s because it is… just like your ridiculous opinion on the matter.

    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:32 am

    The difference is, I’m not just a fan running my mouth on a website.

    I watch Ohio State recruiting every day. I see kids visit Ohio State, leave without an offer, and get an offer from Michigan within a few days after. It happens constantly.

    Michael McCray is about the be the latest Ohio kid without an Ohio State offer that Hoke is pressuring into an early commitment (that is the other part of the equation that I haven’t mentioned yet, pressure for early commits so Ohio State doesn’t have the opportunity to evaluate and offer later on).

    McCray listed Ohio State, Oregon, West Virginia, and Florida State as favorites last May.

    He camped at Ohio State last June and called Ohio State his favorite when he left. He thought Ohio State was close to offering.

    He visits Michigan last September and enjoyed the visit- he said he hadn’t heard from Ohio State lately.

    In December McCray reiterates his interest in Ohio State following the Meyer hire.

    He visited Ohio State in mid-December… and left without an offer despite his coach saying that he expected one.

    On January 20th McCray once again says that he is hoping for an Ohio State offer.

    On February 1st, Michigan offers McCray.

    McCray will make his college decision on March 8th.

    McCray may choose Tennessee, but it looks like the Hokester will strike again!

    But you’re right, there is absolutely no evidence that Hoke specifically targets players hoping for an Ohio State offer but who don’t receive one.

    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 8:01 am

    Because Urban Meyer has never offered a scholarship to a player that Brady Hoke hasn’t already offered. That’s the point. You can point out as many examples of Brady recruiting guys that OSU isn’t currently recruiting until you’re blue in the face and it doesn’t change anything. There are plenty of examples out there of Brady Hoke recruiting guys that OSU also wants. Because those examples exist, it renders your argument moot. Both coaches recruit guys the other doesn’t. It’s just ignorant to say otherwise. Also, both coaches recruit the same kid from time to time. Brady Hoke has won recruiting battles against Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer has obviously won against Brady in Ohio… it’s Ohio. I really don’t think either one of them is nearly as concerned with the other as you are making it out to be. You really should go work for a reality T.V. program.

    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 8:56 am

    So you go from arguing that there is absolutely no proof that it happens- to arguing that even though it happens it doesn’t matter because other things happen as well. That’s quite a different argument, no?

    I could waste a lot of time showing you all of the examples that mirror the Michael McCray situation (Kaleb Ringer, Joe Bolden, Rob Wheelwright, Kevin Gladney), but I will just tell you this: the McCray scenario happens a helluva lot more than any of your alternatives. I know because I follow Ohio State recruiting (and therefore Ohio recruiting) every day.

    You clearly do not, so rationalize it any way you want to make yourself feel better.

    ALso, just to make this very clear, I never said Hoke only recruits kids that Ohio State doesn’t offer. That is absurd and a straw man that you completely fabricated to knock down.

    Congratulations on knocking it down.

    What I will say is that targeting Ohio kids without an Ohio State offer is Hoke’s primary strategy in the state.

    McCray, Ringer, Bolden, Gladney, Wheelwright, Dukes… shall I go on?

  6. ErnestNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Lets be honest, gentlemen, Michigan’s recruiting weekend was quite impressive. I think what many are doing here is SAYING that they aren’t concerned, as a means to make themselves feel better about what happened this past weekend. They landed EIGHT 4* players, I repeat, EIGHT. I’m not worried yet, but we should start to take notice. Now, is Hoke a better recruiter/coach than Mr. Urban Meyer, absolutely not. However, when fat f*** poaches a few from the Columbus area, and to boot, a few more on OSU’s radar, it HAS to raise some eyebrows. At the end of the day, I have full confidence that Urban Meyer and his staff will deliver, and hopefully, land a class better than the idiots upstairs.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:05 am

    “I have full confidence that Urban Meyer and his staff will deliver, and hopefully, land a class better than the idiots upstairs.”

    Times Higher Education Rankings 2011-12

    Michigan #18
    O$U #57

    QS World University Rankings 2012

    Michigan #14
    O$U #111

    One word…



  7. JimNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    For the record, OH WR Jaron Dukes became the latest Michigan commitment today. He had offers from Toledo and Illinois.

    I really think recruiting under-the-radar kids from Ohio is a psychological thing with Hoke. He grew up in Ohio as a Michigan fan just because he could. He recruits kids from Ohio he knows he can get just because he can.

    My hope is that this strategy comes back to bite him when his classes fill up with project players early and he runs out of room in each recruiting class for the big fish down the homestretch.


  8. MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    We are debating something that will probably never happen. Thomas is committed to UM and there is absolutely nothing pointing to a change of heart. As for my “cheap shot”, how is it a cheap shot when the fan base did in fact threaten Kalis? And by the way, who did Kalis recruit for osu?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 6:55 am

    Well, you have shown pretty conclusively that you don’t know what you are talking about; have reading comprehension issues; or are simply trying to get a reaction out of people. Most likely it’s all three.

    Any Michigan fan that spends this much time on an Ohio State website is either looking for attention or trolling. Either way, my patience with answering your questions (which I have gone out of my way to do thus far) is at an end.

    If you are honestly searching for answers to your questions, google it. If you are a troll, go back to your Michigan hideout and brag about how many times you’ve gotten us to respond.


  9. MattNo Gravatar
    February 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    To Ernest above: You had a great, positive post going until you had to resort to classless personal attacks. Way to keep it civil. Jim for your post above regarding Stokes and under the radar Ohio players, it worked quite well for Michigan this past cycle, no?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 6:48 am

    Michigan wasn’t going after under the radar players this past cycle. They pretty much had their pick of Ohio kids thanks to tat-gate. With momentum from a new coach and an Ohio State program in disarray, it was the perfect storm for UM to raid Ohio.

    That won’t be the case moving forward and as pointed out in this article, Hoke is focusing almost all of his attention this cycle on players that Ohio State has passed over thus far.


    ErnestNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    Hi, Matt. I would just like to, from the bottom of my big ol heart, apologize for the “classless” comments I posted in reference to your Michigan Wolverines. The word, “idiot”, is an extremely hurtful word, as is the phrase, “fat f****”. It will never happen again. I will now use the word, “fans” in place of “idiots”, and the phrase, “overweight guy”, in place of “fat f****”. Looking back, they were offensive and downright mean. You have changed my life in so many ways. Thank you. Thank you, so, so much. Go Bucks.


  10. C-DogNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Why are so many Michigan fans on here? Are there no websites where skunk fans gather to congratulate each other on their re-established dazzling wonderfulness? I have no idea, because I don’t look for skunksites. Skunk fans: Mind your own business.


    JeffNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 8:48 am

    There are sites like that, but you have to blow some hippie repeatedly to stay on the site.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:10 am

    True… I’m a wolverine and yes… you must blow a hippie to stay on the site. It’s all true.


  11. MattNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 7:21 am

    Well, Jim, you’ve shown that you do not have enough information to make the claims about negative recruiting, Thomas, nor Kalis. So now you resort to the age old buckeye tactic of insults. Congrats on living up to the stereotype! Otherwise it was a good article. As for C-Dog, why is it do bad to have an opposing fan asking fair questions on “your” site? Why does it worry you to engage in conversation that may run counter to your views?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Saying that you have trouble comprehending what you read isn’t an insult when it is true, which you have demonstrated yet again in this post.

    I have not mentioned negative recruiting anywhere in this article or in the comments, as it relates to Thomas or Kalis in particular (guilty conscience on your part, perhaps?).

    What I did do is call Hoke’s strategies juvenile as it relates to Ohio players without Buckeye offers, and I would even go so far as to classify them as desperate and some sort of pathetic attempt to exorcise the demons of his outcast Ohio youth, but I explicitly stated that there was nothing inherently wrong with what Hoke is doing on the recruiting trail.

    So you looking for evidence to support a claim of “negative recruiting” is what I believe they call a straw man.

    Congratulations, you’ve managed to inspire another response from me.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:16 am

    “What I did do is call Hoke’s strategies juvenile as it relates to Ohio players without Buckeye offers”

    You have zero evidence to support the claim that Brady Hoke uses this as a recruiting tactic! You said yourself that players recruit other players. All it takes is one player to espouse the opinion that they are going to “stick it to the buckeyes” for them all to latch on to that idea. Again, there is no evidence that BRADY HOKE has used this as a strategy. I can point you to several quotes from Michigan commits that say Brady Hoke NEVER uses negative recruiting strategies. You can’t pick and choose a couple quotes that suggest something MIGHT be true, then blindly assume it is fact, and ignore the ones that completely contradict it. This is why Michigan fans call O$U fans delusional. Because you literally are created delusions! It doesn’t get any clearer than that!


  12. MattNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Using a “disrespect” angle could very easily be construed as negative recruiting. And you provide no evidence that Coach Hoke is even taking that tact. I advise you to take your own advice and look up whether or not a coach is resorting to these types of strategies prior to writing your next article. Or don’t and be wrong again. And please explain to me how it is juvenile that Coach Hoke is recruiting players for his system. I doubt he cares whether they have a buckeye offer or not. He cares more about his own system unlike urban and woody hayes before him. You’re reaching there.


    TracyNo Gravatar
    February 27th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Do you think the MU coaching staff does not have a conversation about thos kids and they smile if they take a kid away from ohio that does have a buckeye offer. If you do not think we as Buckeyes fans do not enjoy getting a recruit that Hoke offered into our fold you are just kidding your self


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:24 am

    Michigan coaches smile whenever one of their targets commits because they know that this kid will be in the company of men of character, that this kid will receive a wold class education, that this kid will compete for Big Ten Championships, and that this kid will be put on a path to succeed in the future. That is what is important at Michigan and it will continue to be what is important. It’s not about Ohio, it has never been about Ohio, and it will never be about Ohio, regardless of how much you want it to be. Brady Hoke doesn’t talk about Ohio to prospects that he is recruiting. There are several documented quotes from those student athletes that say that. You’re completely wrong and you have zero evidence to support your claims.


  13. TomNo Gravatar
    February 23rd, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    I wonder if they will put Brady Hoke’s February recruiting championship trophy in the same case as Tate Foricer’s September Heisman?


  14. JimNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 7:17 am

    This one goes out to all the Michigan fans who so diligently defend the honor of Hoke.


    Here is a nice summary of the situation:


    Basically, an Ohio State media outlet (theOzone.net) tweets that Hoke ripped on Meyer during an event. The Michigan faithful go into a tizzy defending Hoke’s honor and say he is above that sort of thing and blah blah blah- the Ohio State outlet must be lying.

    Then a Michigan fan confirms that Hoke did, in fact, rip on Meyer at the event. Michigan fans pull a complete 180 and Hoke is a hero for making the comments- which are spot on.

    That little episode reminded me of the comments here, for some reason…


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:40 am

    There is a big difference between negative recruiting, talking to kids about the shortcomings of another university, and responding to a media question in retaliation to stupid negative recruiting that Urban Meyer used. Why would Urban even begin to compare O$U with Michigan in academics? If I were a parent and saw that, I would feel like Urban is insulting my intelligence, honestly. Michigan has zero players in business school? Really? Michigan’s business school is in the top 5 in the country and you’re telling me that inner city athletes aren’t able to make the cut??? Shocking! Michigan has kids in general studies? Are you all aware that you can go to almost any law school with Michigan’s general studies degree?


  15. mattNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Wow! Groundbreaking. A secondhand tweet from a fellow bucknut! Once again your link shows no proof of Coach Hoke actually saying anything. And you say I lack reading comprehension! Hahaha!! Keep up the excellent journalism!!


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Once again, you clearly didn’t even read either link or you have a very serious mental deficiency. Please go away.


    MaliBuckeyeNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    It may be secondhand, but it’s from a Mich1gAAn board (two, actually), which either proves that they’re invested in the same delusion as Jim or that your literacy is indeed in question.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:44 am

    It still proves nothing with regards to telling kids to “stick it to the buckeyes” because they failed to receive an offer. That entire argument is entire contrived in your own little heads based on a couple of comments by high school students. You say it’s a juvenile remark… maybe that’s because it was completely thought up by juveniles and has absolutely nothing to do with Hoke? Who would have thought that juvenile statements would come from juveniles? Nope! That’s too logical… it must be from Hoke.


  16. MattNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    I’ve read the mgoblog post an nowhere does a UM fan confirm the bucknut post. At least you are consistent. When can we expect your Pulitzer for journalistic integrity?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Try reading it again.

    I’m torn, I really think you are a troll, but it would be oh so hilarious if you really are this clueless.


    MaliBuckeyeNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    From MGo

    I was fortunate enough to know someone that let me tag a long with them this morning. I personally took no offense to this. Someone asked the question to Hoke if he heard about the poster Meyer had made comparing Michigan FB players vs Ohio’s FB players majors. Hoke fired back a response. No harm No Foul. He was a lot of things today. This was supposed to be a private off the record affair but as the moderator tolk Brady this is off the record today he responded ” yeah sure it is”. He knew stuff would get out. I did not think it was a big deal at all and actually it was quite funny.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 6:47 am

    So Brady Hoke made a flippant remark to a bunch of reporters… and therefore he is negatively recruiting against Ohio State and telling players that didn’t receive offers that they should “stick it to the buckeyes” and join the wolverines! umm… DELUSIONAL!!!!


  17. MattNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Keep trying. Weak boys weak.


    MaliBuckeyeNo Gravatar
    February 24th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    And yet, somehow strong enough to pull you back over and over and over again.

    “tBBC. We Now Have A Tractor Beam”.

    (not to be confused with the high beams on IU’s tractors)


  18. JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:02 am

    In reference to the comments that ‘ThoseWhoStayUofM’ just bombed this article with:

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:14 am

    The shear absurdity of this article is overwhelming. What can I say? I’m in shock and awe at how insane you must be to actually write this article and expect that nobody will call you out on your bull****. You and this article are a complete fraud.


    ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:17 am

    Also, suggesting that my argument is false because I am fervent in the way with which I present the argument is an ad hominem logical fallacy.


  19. ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:11 am

    Here’s the exact quote:

    “Someone asked if [Brady Hoke] saw the recruiting tactics that Urban implemented regarding the college majors for the players at each university, and he responded ‘we dont recruit negatively, I’m not going to mention the 30 arrests and some felonies in 5 years that happened at Florida.’”

    So here’s Brady Hoke, responding to a question regarding Urban Meyer’s BLATANT negative recruiting tactics. He says that he WILL NOT negatively recruit and flippantly takes a jab at Urban Meyer. You then use this to form a basis that he does negatively recruit?!?!?!? You are quote cutting and lying through your teeth!


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    It had nothing to do with recruiting or proof that Hoke negatively recruits.

    I used it as proof that Michigan fans are idiots who defend Hoke no matter what he does.

    You are doing a good job proving my point.

    From the example I linked, the line from fans was: Saying something negative is not Hoke’s style, he’s above that, there is no proof that it happens, someone must be lying.

    Then when presented with proof that it happened, people completely change their tune.

    You did the exact same thing with your comments this very morning.

    You claimed that Hoke is above recruiting Ohio kids without Ohio State offers. It’s not his style, he doesn’t need to do that, there is absolutely no proof that it happens.

    When I present you with proof, you completely change your argument and claim that it doesn’t matter for various reasons.

    It’s like clockwork.


  20. ThoseWhoStayUofMNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 7:43 am

    ok, last comment before I go.

    I have to admit that Brady Hoke is easy to laugh at… or with. I’m not really sure. Everything he says is hilarious for some reason. It’s kind of like listening to George W. Bush. You find yourself asking, “really?!?… really?!?!??!”. lol

    I can’t even look at him without laughing. On the sidelines, he looks like Fred Flinstone mixed with a blueberry… and his signature walk just adds to the effect.



  21. MattNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    You’re wasting your time trying to rationalize with this group, thosewhostay. After all, it’s bad to support Coach Hoke, but it’s perfectly logical to get behind a coach who cheats, lies, and covers up his team’s transgressions, right Jim?


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    If it were my goal (it’s not) to discredit all things Michigan and show that their fans are a bunch of oversensitive crybabies, you pretty much do my work for me Matt- so thank you for that.


  22. MattNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    No one’s crying. You’re just a hack writer who spews obvious anti-Hoke bias thinly disguised as a complimentary “article”. You provide no basis for any of your accusations. Your “writing” would be better placed in the National Enquirer or some other rag like that.


    JimNo Gravatar
    February 28th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Anti-Hoke bias on an Ohio State website!? The horror!

    Claiming that no one is crying while continuing to cry isn’t the most persuasive way to make that argument- just for future reference.


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